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Date:	Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:18:47 PDT7
From:	"Steven Levine" <steve53@earthlink.net >
Reply-To:	scoug-help@scoug.com
To:	scoug-help@scoug.com
Subject:	SCOUG-Help: SCOUG list server timestamp violation (was: message time 2 from mr2/ice)

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In <3F83F9BA.7DBD@peterskye.com>, on 10/08/03
at 04:47 AM, Peter Skye said:

>Quick important note: See the bottom half of this message -- the SCOUG
>list server appears to be in violation of proper time zone identification
>on the Date line.

My understanding was that the Date: line reports the time that the SCOUG
mailing list server processed the message. AFAIK, it bears only a passing
relationship to the orginal Date: line.

>-- 1) the first two headers show +0000 for the X-OldDate while the third
>header shows -0700

I used ICE to sent the one that shows -0700. I used Mozilla 1.5rc2 to
send the others. The OS/2 build of 1.5rc2 appears to be broken.

>-- 2) the X-OldDate differential is 8 hours, not 7 hours as it should be
>(take a look at the headers if you didn't already notice this latter
>problem).

Mozilla is applying the shift because it's broken. The actual shift is a
lot more than 8 hours if you consider the indicated time zone.

>-- Did the settings you used for the first two test messages cause
>Mozilla to convert those outbound header Date stamps to GMT?

Mozilla is broken.

>Finally, is it possible that Mozilla doesn't understand "PDT7" which the
>SCOUG list server uses in the restamp?

No. The Date line supplied by Mozilla is broken.

>If you (or Ray) manually change
>the message from "PDT7" to "-0700" does the correct time miraculously
>appear?

No. The Date line supplied is more than -0700 off from what it should be.

>IMPORTANT: "PDT7" isn't supported by RFC 2822 "Internet Message Format"

Talk to the SCOUG server admin about this.

> "SMTP servers that create Received fields SHOULD use
> explicit offsets in the dates (e.g., -0800), rather
> than time zone names of any type. Local time (with
> an offset) is preferred to UT when feasible."

I guess Rollin did it this way because you asked (bullied?) him into it
way back when. At that time 822 was the defacto standard.

FWIW, 2822 is still listed only as a PROPOSED STANDARD.

>Thus, Mozilla may be following _only_ RFC 2822 and ignoring the time zone
>abbreviations which were allowed in the earlier RFC 822.

No. The broken code, which is probably in the gcc runtime, should be
fixed.

One more FWIW. Mozilla, and perhaps Netscape, do not display the
unsullied Date: tag. Mozilla interprets the date and displays it in local
local time.

To see what's really in the message header, you need to do a File -> Save
As.

Given the message that left here at 5:49pm

Mozilla tagged it with:

Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:49:55 +0000

and the SCOUG server rewrote this to:

Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:48:14 PDT7
X-OldDate: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:49:55 +0000

Of course, both ICE and Mozilla v1.4.x would have tagged the message with:

Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:49:55 -0700

I suspect that Mozilla 1.5rc3 or the equivalent will do the same.

HTH,

Steven

--
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"Steven Levine" MR2/ICE 2.37 #10183 Warp4/FP15/14.093c_W4
www.scoug.com irc.webbnet.info irc.fyrelizard.org #scoug (Wed 7pm PST)
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